{"id":256,"date":"2023-10-13T11:16:07","date_gmt":"2023-10-13T11:16:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/bim4housing.com\/iq-contractual\/?page_id=256"},"modified":"2023-10-13T11:25:04","modified_gmt":"2023-10-13T11:25:04","slug":"bim4housing-contractual-workstream-09-10-2023","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/bim4housing.com\/iq-contractual\/bim4housing-contractual-workstream-09-10-2023\/","title":{"rendered":"BIM4HOUSING CONTRACTUAL WORKSTREAM 09-10-2023"},"content":{"rendered":"
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BIM4HOUSING CONTRACTUAL WORKSTREAM 09-10-2023<\/strong><\/h2>\n

PAUL McSOLEY I went through all the stuff that\u2019s in the Building Safety Act and just looked at what the definitions were of a few things to refresh myself. When you look at it, and this is all going to fee into this secondary legislation because <\/span>Howell? 50secs <\/span>said it very well recently for Construction News, they\u2019re not making you build to different standards, but we\u2019re going to make you behave to different ones. For the purposes of product safety if under normal and reasonable foreseeable conditions of use taking into account\u2026specified for the purposes of this paragraph by construction product regulations, the product does not present any risk to health or safety of persons or if it does the risk is as low as can be compatible with using the product. That\u2019s what product safety means.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you look at safety critical products\u2026it says construction product regulations may make provision for and in relation to standards for safety critical products, hence safety critical standards is the definition. It tells you in here that safety critical products are in the list that\u2019s contained within construction product regulations\u2026for the purposes of this schedule safety critical products means construction products which are included in a list containing construction product regulations. A construction product may be indicated in the list\u2026if in the view of the Secretary of State the failure of the product would risk causing death or serious injury to any person and the product is not on for which there are designated standards\u2026it basically tells you that the list contained within CPI is basically safety critical products, those things that can cause death or serious injury to persons.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The bit that\u2019s caught everyone amiss with this is that everyone is thinking this is just fire safety related. It is not. This is the list from construction product regulations (<\/span>shares screen<\/span><\/i>). This is the area codes at the back, and this is what I\u2019m assuming it\u2019s referring to. Precast normal\/lightweight\/autoclaved\/aerated concrete products - there\u2019s a revelation, George. Doors, windows, shutters, gates, related building hardware, membranes, thermal insulation products, composite insulating kits. There\u2019s loads of things in here, chimneys, flues, <\/span>sanitary works<\/span><\/i> because you\u2019re carrying stuff which is Category 5 water risk and if you don\u2019t look after them you can spread cholera or other disease which can cause risk of death or serious injury to persons, that\u2019s safety critical. So everyone\u2019s kind of looking at it in the fire light, there\u2019s fire stopping and fire sealing at the bottom here, but you\u2019re talking about water regulations and all the rest of it.<\/span><\/p>\n

One of my biggest issues is getting people into the head space where you go every product has a function it\u2019s supposed to do initially and the fire element is the last bit. <\/span>Douglas Maddison? 5mins 5secs<\/span>, brilliant guy, <\/span>says<\/span><\/i> when is a door not a door? He goes it\u2019s a door that has security, if it\u2019s a fire door, when it\u2019s this\u2026there\u2019s so many functions that kit can do. it\u2019s the same as the dampers, is it a damper that\u2019s protecting against the smoke, is it there for fire only.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Is this the list that they\u2019ve come up with? Or is this a list you\u2019ve come up with?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY That\u2019s inside CPR, Construction Product Regulations 2011. It tells you in here\u2026the products which are included in list contained in the product regulations and that\u2019s the CPR list that\u2019s in there.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE Doors and windows.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY Yeah, windows are dangerous because they can fall out, doors are dangerous if they don\u2019t work. Do you remember the kid that was crushed to death by the glass mirror in a retail store? Safety critical isn\u2019t it? The fixings. You can see that the whole change is coming. If you look at those 13 points I\u2019ve done around\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE So that means all doors, not just fire doors?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY I think if you look at a door which is powered it\u2019s under the Machine Act as well because you\u2019ve got the power stuff on it. Doors is here: doors, windows, shutters, gates. This is part of that CPR package at the back, I haven\u2019t had a chance to read it yet but it talks about the competency around general assignment of product standards and things like that. So everyone\u2019s looking at the list of\u2026and I\u2019m guilty of it as well because I\u2019ve been heavily involved with trying to get the list done around these kind of ones at the moment, but that\u2019s just general passive fire. Really that stuff there\u2026is flues, chimneys.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE Thermal insulation products.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY Yeah, because if you don\u2019t insulate something and you lean up against it and it burns you it can cause serious injury or death. I\u2019m just putting this into perspective because when you look at the wording that was used I\u2019m sure it was something along the lines of this - structural fires safety and other regulatory pertained hazards. I think we\u2019ve added the fire safety in because of our unconscious bias. So I\u2019m looking at this and going is this a structural safety issue, well that\u2019s covered by that bit there. Pins for structural joints, structural bearings, it\u2019s all in there because if you get this stuff wrong it all falls apart. Walls, gypsum products. We\u2019re probably looking at it too simplistically because it\u2019s complex, there\u2019s a bit more too it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE CPR relates to Regulation 7 of building regs.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY It does. Can I just put this into context, even though these things are very similar they kind of overlap. Have a look at this one here, that was Regulation 7, adequate and proper materials appropriate for the circumstances adequately mixed or prepared, applied, fixed, used - adequate functions for which they are designed in a workmanlike manner. Number 4, this is before you get onto the higher-risk buildings\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE Before you joined we were just talking about obviously the big concern at the moment, the 1st of October is high-rise residential buildings, or high-risk, it really irritates me that they keep swapping that term. The concern I\u2019ve got is that is that a lot of this actually, as Martin just said, really what this is about is enforcing what people should have been doing anyway which is complying with building regs. This is shining a light on the fact that people seldom are and therefore I think this is really helpful because the other thing that came out in the secondary legislation is that the clients now have to sign off that they\u2019ve received all of the information. Now, that\u2019s a real first because normally, I was talking to somebody from building control and he was saying what typically happens is that building control goes along to the client.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The client is briefed by the construction company to tell them that they\u2019ve got everything because if they don\u2019t say that then they won\u2019t get the completion certificate. And building control aren\u2019t going to drill into asking anymore questions because their job is to get a confirmation from the client to say that it\u2019s complied, so nobody is actually checking. That\u2019s what he said. This new thing saying that they\u2019ve actually got to confirm that they\u2019ve had the information, that\u2019s going to be a game changer because they\u2019ve actually got to read it, they\u2019ve actually got to look at the O&Ms and the handover information, and I don\u2019t think most clients do.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY I think it depends on the client and their level of maturity\u2026because if you\u2019ve got a client that\u2019s just flipping a job very briefly and getting out they won\u2019t necessarily have the level of maturity or intelligence to understand what all of this means.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE (<\/span>referring to a document displayed by Paul on screen<\/span><\/i>). That\u2019s the annex you were referring to?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY Yeah, that\u2019s the only thing I could find in there because what it refers to is a list in CPR 2011 and that\u2019s the list at the back. Product areas the requirements for tabs, I\u2019m not sure what tabs means to be honest, it will define something. That\u2019s the list there, I\u2019ve taken that and put it into Excel, and that was a bit underneath which talks about analysing risk which is about risk, setting the technical criteria, setting assessment methods to determine the factory control procedure. So, the 12 points that I've done for PFKG, I\u2019ve it back out to you guys to see what's gone on, is I've got 5 point around analysing risk, how you get to the right operation of it, how you classify it, how you put it in, how the wall should interface as a system and how you install it. But then obviously this here is like a QA function assessing, so it all fits in with what this is saying, just by default I\u2019d never read this bit before, the same logic has been applied. The list is from Annex 4. I\u2019ve just taken it from the government website, under construction product regulations 2011.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE The two that stand out for me, gypsum products and aggregates, I just think how does that work?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY Well, gypsum products is your walls.<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Yeah, I know, but it could easily be gypsum plaster, couldn\u2019t it?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY Aggregates, the thing is the problem I\u2019ve got with this is it isn\u2019t technical, this is health & safety law. You get people to think they\u2019re technical and they\u2019re not technical because technical now is technical, technical, technical, it\u2019s ultra with this stuff as it\u2019s so complex. You\u2019ve got to read it as a health & safety law, you sit there and you go will it cause harm or death to an individual. Now, silica, which is in aggregates, can cause other problems, silicosis, and also it can cause burning because it\u2019s an alkaline, and gypsum products they\u2019ll be something around that as well, it\u2019s the weight, the dust, whatever is in it that\u2019s a health & safety issue. Does that make sense?<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE It\u2019s chiming quite well, Paul. We had a question come up from our procurement team saying we\u2019ve got national agreements across the board with some of the household name merchants: Travis Perkins etc. The agreements are across the board so if anybody from our organisation says can I have a pack of this then they get a pack of that. But within the agreement there is also a little rider that says if they haven\u2019t got a pack of that in they are allowed to substitute for a pack of the other\u2026you get an equivalent. So the procurement team came to me and said is there anything in the new legislation that says we\u2019re offside here. When I looked into it I had to say maybe, but I\u2019m not going to waste my time with the new legislation, you\u2019re actually bang outside the CDM regs, because what they\u2019ve done by substituting a product is they\u2019ve assumed the role of the designer. That\u2019s in the CDM regs, let alone the new building safety. So when you order 12 of these and you don\u2019t get 12 of these, you get 12 of something else, you are in a world of bother, it\u2019s just going to get worse because now people are going to start checking and asking about it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE So, TP have unwittingly taken on the role of the designer.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY They probably have, it\u2019s a bit like Tescos, when they send me an aubergine and I don\u2019t like aubergines, I like courgettes, they are assuming the role of the customer. What Howell? 19mins 4secs (<\/span>Construction News<\/span><\/i>) said was the changes are not asking the construction industry to build to different standards, they are telling it to behave to different standards. The industry has an opportunity top demonstrate a willingness to embrace these reforms and rebuild public trust in what we do. It will not be easy or quick, but it needs to be done.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE I went to a GS1 event a week ago and there was a guy there from Fisher who make fixings and he was describing the way they\u2019re using GS1. He said that some manufacturers, well, not manufacturers, they\u2019re almost like distributors but they are sort of intermediary people, they will take a product. They publish their own products, but they don\u2019t manufacturer them, and sometimes they\u2019ll swap out one product for another product, but they don\u2019t give it a new barcode, apparently that\u2019s not uncommon. They may be sourcing from 2 or 3 different manufacturers across Europe and they may then choose to swap one product for another product, but because it is their product ID they\u2019ve swapped it. Martin, you told me several years ago, when we first talked through this, about glass. You said that Saint-Gobain couldn\u2019t tell you which of their factories the glass actually came from.<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE In their head office they didn\u2019t know, they wouldn\u2019t know, there is no stewardship in the UK on glass. It\u2019s hard to believe, but it\u2019s a fact.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY (<\/span>shares screen<\/span><\/i>). Under number 4, provision under three of the designated standards\u2026construction products may make provision for in relation to designated standards for construction products and technical assessments for construction products. So provision under number 3 may include the designation by the Secretary of State of standards prepared in accordance with the regulations or the 2011 regulation, which again is that product list there. For the designation by the Secretary of State, on international standards. So things that are prepared in relation to construction product regulations the things that are done to EU harmonised standards or international standards, or EU harmonised standards, international standards be designated standards.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

The only thing with that is that when you look at Regulation 7 you can use CPR, you can use harmonised, you can use ISOs, there\u2019s other routes to comply on actually how it is safe to do the buildings. So nothing is really changing, this is just reinforcing it. The one that was really interesting was mandatory reporting. Mandatory reporting, is it under the HRB one? Yeah, I\u2019ll get that back up quickly. Regulation 32. It tells you here what the designations are.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Yeah, we got involved with the feedback sessions, I think one of your guys did as well. It ties in with what you were saying earlier, George, the MD was saying the questions he was being asked by PA Consulting, they didn\u2019t know the difference between an high-rise and high-risk either, they were very confused\u2026so they got off to a great start just asking these questions about what do you think about this, that and the other. Our MD was saying this all needs to take care of the stuff that goes on during design and development.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY It tells you here the information that it talks about, this is going to further reinforce it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE There\u2019s a guidance document that might help. <\/span>The discussion with PA consulting<\/span><\/i>, we were saying let\u2019s not just focus on what goes on on-site, because that\u2019s what the whole industry does, but what goes on before we get to site. it was a whole new way of thinking to these people, they\u2019d got it split into two basically, in occupation and during construction. So to try and influence that, and this os only a few weeks leading up to the October 1st deadline, and get the thinking changed was almost impossible. (<\/span>shares screen<\/span><\/i>). Where it will get interesting, and we were going through this on Friday last week, there\u2019s the building safety occurrence definitions, structural failure and spread of fire and smoke and that must be reported. Anything that\u2019s likely to result in death or harm.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE Does it say what level of detail you need to report?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Yes. You must report faults you discover in the design plans, that\u2019s a source for conflict. We don\u2019t like your design, we\u2019re going to tell the Regulator. Anything that gets reported to RIDDOR has to be duplicated as a mandatory occurrence report, hat\u2019s new one. There\u2019s the detail of what you submit, George. And after you\u2019ve submitted the report they\u2019ll be back in touch to say yea, good enough, or we need more or\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE So does it require you to say where that particular product was used? Because mandatory occurrence reporting doesn\u2019t specifically say it\u2019s about a product, does it?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Any risk would be a better way to describe it, it\u2019s potential.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE So once you know that there is a risk\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY (<\/span>shares screen<\/span><\/i>). It says here examples must be reported, defective building work including defective person scheme work that has been done as part of the wider building work. Fire safety issues likely to result in the spread of fire. The use of non-compliant products or incompatible compliant products in the construction of the building. Inappropriate on incorrect installation of construction products. Product failure against specification and claimed performance. So when you look at it you go use of non-compliant products or incompatible compliant products, I\u2019m really pleased this has been done in this wording because basically it backs that up, that is your mechanism. And if you don\u2019t follow that mechanism.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE One thing we picked out, you see that competent person scheme, we didn\u2019t understand that when we first read through it. Say you\u2019ve got a guy putting in some fire stopping and he\u2019s third-party accredited, a member of a scheme that makes sure he\u2019s trained and competent, that doesn\u2019t mean you still don\u2019t report, you can\u2019t report something that you see. You still have to, whether they\u2019re a member of it or not.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY There\u2019s a difference between being incompetent and competency.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Well, even if they\u2019re incompetent you\u2019ve got to report it, but if they\u2019re competent you\u2019ve still got to report it if you see something that is defective.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY What I mean is you can have someone who is FIRAS accredited third-party for installing fire stopping for pipework, but that doesn\u2019t mean they\u2019re any good at dampers, does it? I\u2019ve got a flight simulator and I can fly A380s on a computer. I wouldn\u2019t put me in the cockpit though.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Did you hear the story about Max Verstappen, <\/span>the race driver<\/span><\/i>. He told Red Bull he\u2019d win the next Japanese Grand Prix before they signed him up, and they said how do you know? He said I win it every time on X-Box. And apparently the simulation is that good now that it\u2019s not dissimilar. And he won it. When he won his first Grand Prix he didn\u2019t have a driving licence, but he could drive a Formula One car.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY the thing that makes me laugh, there\u2019s an analogy here as well that when all this was kicking off, people doing training comparing this to the Road Traffic Act, I still sit here and go it\u2019s nothing like the Road traffic Act. It\u2019s not the same thing, like you get caught for speeding, I don\u2019t think the comparison is right. This is a health & safety piece of legislation, not a Road Traffic Act, it\u2019s not the same thing.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE I think it\u2019s also that I\u2019d have thought the Traffic Act would be quite explicit, you\u2019ve either gone over 70 or you\u2019ve not. Whereas in this the number of ways that you can fall foul of it are huge.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY What I\u2019m saying is with the Road Traffic Act is that if you\u2019ve got to do 80 miles an hour to save yourself from crashing and killing someone you can do that. I\u2019m sure it doesn\u2019t say someone\u2019s made a mistake, if you slow down you\u2019re dead but if you speed up you\u2019ll survive, oh, but I can\u2019t break the speed limit. You\u2019re gonna break the speed limit because I think that is a surely acceptable thing, it will say something in there about you can do that if your life depends on it. So when you look at this there is so much entrapment because this thing here around the use of non-compliant products or incompatibility of products, let\u2019s just refresh ourselves on Section 24 of the Building Safety Act. A person commits an offence if they provide false or misleading information to the Regulator. So look at how these two work together, if you don\u2019t mandatory report it they\u2019ve got you.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE Could I just build on that. One of the things that I\u2019ve picked up, the guy that you put me in touch with, Paul, on LinkedIn, Adrian I think, he\u2019s a building control specialist and he\u2019s just moved from the council to being\u2026he\u2019s very, very thorough.\u00a0 He brought this up and the fact is it\u2019s unlimited fines and 2 years on prison. It occurred to me if you\u2019ve got a set of O&Ms, Martin, and they\u2019re not as-built, which very few O&Ms are as-built, then unless you explicitly say that they are as designed and not as-built then you\u2019re proving misleading information.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY I think you might be right. The point is that if you do lab work and you get involved in that kind of shenanigan, everything is highly regulated down to fumigation, depending on hydrogen peroxide, formaldehyde, pipe work, PIBs, all of the things that you\u2019ve got to do to make those labs safe. Pressure regimes, is the wall going to hold back 2-3000 pascals of pressure, how can you prove it, what testing has been done, what seals, it\u2019s all there because pathogen control is life safety critical. Pathogen control supersedes, if you had a fire in a CL4 lab you shut the submarine door and you leave them in there and everyone gets burnt to death. I don\u2019t mean that to be facetious, you burn the damn thing out because with the heat that\u2019s in there nothing is surviving\u00a0 anyway. And that\u2019s the things that were going on because you can\u2019t run sprinklers in there because you\u2019ve got an effluent treatment tank, you\u2019ll overflow it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Basically this is saying when you look at it all together everyone is going on about fire and this isn\u2019t referring to fire, this is all referring to safety critical elements, which is your water regulations, if you get that wrong people can get legionnaire\u2019s, back contamination and it can cause massive issues. Drainage systems, sanitary ware, because what\u2019s in everyone\u2019s effluent isn\u2019t from public to be walking around in, we learnt that back with Bazalgette, you\u2019ve got to get rid of it. None of these things are changing, it\u2019s just a case of they need us to behave differently around them, personally I\u2019ve learnt don\u2019t think it\u2019s all about fire safety because it\u2019s not, it\u2019s about all of it. That\u2019s an interesting dynamic for me.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE I remember Martin saying a couple of years ago that really what you\u2019re doing now is treating all buildings as being something that you\u2019ve got to track.<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY It\u2019s not just about high-risk, it\u2019s about all buildings and if you\u2019ve got a process that works in a high-risk building. Don\u2019t get me wrong, this isn\u2019t me blowing smoke out of all of us, the 12 points, what you put together on the thing originally, every time I see that diagram floating round I just smile because people are using it and you\u2019ve got to love that. Anything I do on lecturing, I always mention you George\u2026because of the effort that\u2019s gone into getting this whole Bim4housing set up with all the black box, it\u2019s important. That mechanism works as far as I can see for everything, i can\u2019t comment on facades because it\u2019s inherently more of a different type of system than it is for walls and floors, it\u2019;s got different things involved with it, but actually when you look at things like water regulations the same principle applies. Risk category of building, risk category of space and category 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 risks that you\u2019ve got in the building categories or categories of systems, it\u2019s the same principle, how does it operate.<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE One of the things I\u2019m looking at the moment, I could do with both of your feedback on this, is how does this relate other than new build construction to handover. What I mean by that is Regulation 38 applies when you\u2019re handing over a project. That project may not be a new build, it may be when something is rewired, it\u2019s anything that touches on building regs I believe.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY There\u2019s exemptions. (<\/span>shares screen<\/span><\/i>). Exempt work, something about circuits and things like that. In relation to an existing fixed building service, which is not a fixed internal or external lighting system\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE It\u2019s pretty basic though, isn\u2019t it? Replacement of an external door. So if, for example, somebody is replacing the fire doors in an existing building I think that would fall under building regs. And as I understand it what happens is that what happens is the requirements for the information is defined at handover and it\u2019s at that point that the client needs to confirm that they\u2019ve received everything. But what they\u2019ve then got to do is it then falls under something called a Fire Safety Order. I\u2019ve asked fire people and they say Regulation 38 only applies at project handover. I said surely if there is a requirement for the client to confirm that they\u2019ve received the information there must be some responsibility on them to keep it and maintain it. They pointed me to another part of the legislation where it says that when you pass from one responsible person to another, I\u2019m interpreting that as being from let\u2019s say appointing an FM contractor, then both parties have got to confirm that they\u2019ve got all of the information that they need. I\u2019m just checking my understanding. Would you agree with that, Martin?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE I think so, it would be difficult to argue against looking at what Paul\u2019s just thrown up there. But you\u2019d be pushing against closed doors because most people won\u2019t know that.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE No, exactly. There\u2019s a project that we\u2019re just starting work on at the moment where Balfour Beatty are the main contractor and Equans are taking over the asset management and I think there are still some big gaps between that handover. I think what it\u2019s doing, nobody is going to get this right immediately, but what it might do is shine enough of a spotlight on it that will encourage people, to be frank, like you, who want to see it improved. The problem often is that you and Paul, you\u2019ll be advocating for this within your own organisations and people will be saying, well, we\u2019ve never had to do that before. If we can articulate that in a simple way without being threatening, because you don\u2019t want to overstep the mark, we need need to encourage people along a path rather than\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Yeah, you can\u2019t play hardball because there\u2019s too many things in the air in terms of no one has experienced this, the Regulator\u2019s not going to be that sure and will be busy with other things, it will be new to everybody involved. We\u2019re all going to have to find out together.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY My biggest concern is that what will happen is that until the first prosecutions occur no one will wake up and smell the coffee on this. Or what you\u2019ll probably get is a slow burn where people don\u2019t realise that all of this Act, if you look at the work that\u2019s involved in a job and you look at things functionally, you\u2019re going to potentially get yourself prosecuted for using the wrong materials, the wrong water regulations come into it, the wrong chemicals in the system, before you even get to the level of fire safety element that kicks in later on because that\u2019s got to be functionally correct.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE So therefore the processes\u2026I\u2019m just stepping back a minute because one of the things I\u2019m struggling with is how do you relate a specification to a design solution, because when most people are producing specifications, they are using software like NBS Chorus <\/span>which<\/span><\/i> typically generates a 2,000 page PDF document that is quite holistic, there\u2019s a lot of things in it. And therefore for us to be able to say what was the specification of that damper that was used, how can we break out that so that you\u2019ve got a direct match between the spec\u2026maybe I\u2019m just trying to do something too hard scale.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY No, let\u2019s have a laugh with you. So if I got to spec 2003 fire stopping you\u2019ll go, I\u2019m not saying this is what it was, if I go 2013\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE George, what you\u2019re saying there, this is the difference between a spec and a design, one can\u2019t exist without the other but they are two different things.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY I think that summarises it (<\/span>holds up a handwritten note on screen<\/span><\/i>).\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE So, in 2003 you\u2019ve got fire stopping by Hilti and then 2013 you\u2019ve got fire stopping by contractor. Could you explain the significance of that?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY The significance is, and this is where it\u2019s all shot to bits. (<\/span>shares screen<\/span><\/i>). I bring back up that and we go to Part 3 general, that\u2019s everything that\u2019s required to specify one pipe at one wall for fire stopping. But you don\u2019t need to, you can do by Hilti, in the old days, or now you can go by contractor. And that\u2019s the problem with NBS and NES. The play on words is that you can\u2019t specify something this complicated, that\u2019s the issue, so when it comes down to things like in the high-risk buildings if you go to classification\u2026a change of any construction product or building element to be used in or on a proposed higher-risk building such that its replacement is of a lower classification under the reaction to fire classification, with the meaning of that one there. So it\u2019s all about change, it\u2019s when you change, and this is where they messed up because it\u2019s not about reaction to fire, it\u2019s about resistance to fire and reaction to fire. So they\u2019ve messed this up a little bit because they\u2019re looking at it on the basis, again, of cladding (this is how I\u2019m reading this).\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So if you change something where it\u2019s a lower classification under resistant with the fire classification with the meaning\u2026let\u2019s see what it says in Regulation 2(6). I need to see what it says in there, but if it\u2019s talking about reaction to fire classification hopefully they\u2019ve got this listed right in there because if you take a door in a hospital, it could be in a store room with bandages in it and that HTM could say it is a vision panel so you can see in the room, and actually you want to protect the hospital from smoke from that room, you want to insulate everything in the room including the door and it\u2019s going to have the integrity as well, plus the W for the glass pouch and nothing spreads. You get the same bandage storeroom and put it in a commercial office, the one in the hospital might be sprinklered as well, you go into the office and it\u2019s probably got an E-category and no sprinklers because of the height of the building.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So if you get it wrong originally and you\u2019re going up do you need to report it? if you\u2019ve got it wrong originally and it\u2019s massively over-classified , which is what everybody is doing, especially in the damper market, I want EIS C10000 and I want it all, this things enormous, how are you going to fit that in the building? And you go what does it need to be, imagine the rows you are going to have with that. So there\u2019s two parts of entrapment that\u2019s going on. You can see how all of these things are linking together, from BSA to this, and I\u2019m only picking on the bits that I think relate to products that are pertinent to me, the rest of it I\u2019m not really worried about how you pass information between people. Let someone else worry about that, I just want to make sure it\u2019s right for where you\u2019re putting it. But it\u2019s things under notifiable change that really got me as well. Notifiable change, if it\u2019s of a higher classification you\u2019ve still got to notify and you\u2019ve gone from lower to higher. So they\u2019ve got you both ways, going from higher to lower is a major, lower to higher is a minor, but you\u2019ve still got to notify them.<\/span><\/p>\n

I love this one here. A change to the number or dimensions of any opening in any wall, ceiling or other building element for any pipe, duct or cable. Checkmate. When people say what\u2019s the risk, the risk of what? Doing something wrong and then trying to conceal it? Because that\u2019s misleading and that\u2019s a criminal offence. What\u2019s the risk of it going wrong, will it cause harm to people? Possibly will, possibly won\u2019t, but the bottom line is that we\u2019ve all got systems in place now when these seals are done on site they\u2019re recorded in a system like Boris or other where if that person has done their job thoroughly because they understand all the products, if it\u2019s even like a millimetre out or a foul shy are you reporting it as not being in line with how it\u2019s classified? Because if you are then there is no risk that\u2019s low, medium, it\u2019s all high because you\u2019re going to declare it yourself anyway. I don\u2019t think you can hide from this. Someone said to me it\u2019s not been put together very well, I\u2019m going\u2026apart from the fact they\u2019re using reaction to fire rather than reaction or resistance to fire which is what I think they should be saying, I think it\u2019s pretty much a done deal, you\u2019re not getting away from this.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE Do we know who\u2019s authored it?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE Some of the health & safety seminars I attended, there was a lot of reference to a group of civil servants at DLUCHC who put it together. They\u2019ve been very, very busy on it and there was a lot of them on it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY This has been helpful for me because I\u2019m only looking at the bits I\u2019m looking at and it\u2019s good to get other people\u2019s\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE What you said chimed with me, Paul. I\u2019ve been looking at mandatory occurrence in isolation almost, and then I started talking to people who\u2019ve been looking at change control and you can see how the tow are linked. There\u2019s other things that feed, the summary of the day was quite good there, you\u2019re not going to get away from this.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PAUL McSOLEY There\u2019s no hiding from this, but the interesting thing for me is that it\u2019s not fire safety relatable, or a very small fraction is. It\u2019s water regulations. You\u2019ve got to laugh because one of the biggest things on the CPR is autoclave concrete. No disrespect, you\u2019ve got people going out doing surveying and they\u2019re surveying this with gap gauges like it\u2019s applicable to that, because it\u2019s not. This is the issue that actually some of the surveyors haven\u2019t got competency around that type of concrete trying to understand what they\u2019re looking at, gap gauges is not right because you can\u2019t tell if it\u2019s bonded still on the inside. I see Mark\u2019s out there in the ether, he\u2019s no longer working for Bouygues.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE Yeah, I\u2019ve asked him what he\u2019s doing and he said he\u2019s just taking a bit of time to work out what he\u2019s going to do. I suspect he\u2019s already got something.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

MARTIN ADIE It\u2019s becoming quite an interesting phase, everybody got to October 1st and let out a big sigh of relief thinking, oh, we got there and it will all sort itself out, but there\u2019s still a lot of learning and understanding to be done here. Again Paul said it but without sort of saying we\u2019re the only ones who do understand it, I think talking to colleagues within the company there\u2019s a lot of understanding there but it\u2019s not where we are, and we\u2019re still spending 1 1\/2 hours every Monday going what about this? Oh I don\u2019t know.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

GEORGE I went to an ASFP event, association of passive fire, 3 or 4 weeks ago and I was introduced to the director from DLUCHC and he was very interested in what we\u2019ve done in Bim4housing and he\u2019s asked me specifically to send him over the information that we did for the golden thread. I haven\u2019t yet done that, but I must. He seemed very, very bothered and he was frustrated that some of his people\u2026he was surprised about the level of information, the 12 asset types that we did the deep dive on and the suggestions that we\u2019d brought out of the Golden Thread Initiative, he\u2019d not seen any of that and he was disappointed that he\u2019d note seen it. That was encouraging that he was bothered enough to make the point. And then he did his presentation and it was very, very good and he grew up in a council flat that had mould so he\u2019s very passionate about making it work.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

CHAT<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Martin Adie<\/b><\/p>\n

https:\/\/buildingsafety.campaign.gov.uk\/making-buildings-safer\/building-safety-regulator-news\/a-defining-year-for-building-safety\/#:~:text=I%20am%20pleased%20to%20report,safety%20of%20buildings%20are%20robust<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

BIM4HOUSING CONTRACTUAL WORKSTREAM 09-10-2023 PAUL McSOLEY I went through all the stuff that\u2019s in the Building Safety Act and just looked at what the definitions were of a few things to refresh myself. When you look at it, and this is all going to fee into this secondary legislation because Howell? 50secs said it very…<\/p>\n

Read More<\/span>+<\/i><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"parent":0,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-256","page","type-page","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nBIM4HOUSING CONTRACTUAL WORKSTREAM 09-10-2023 - IQ Contractual<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/bim4housing.com\/iq-contractual\/bim4housing-contractual-workstream-09-10-2023\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"BIM4HOUSING CONTRACTUAL WORKSTREAM 09-10-2023 - IQ Contractual\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"BIM4HOUSING CONTRACTUAL WORKSTREAM 09-10-2023 PAUL McSOLEY I went through all the stuff that\u2019s in the Building Safety Act and just looked at what the definitions were of a few things to refresh myself. 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