SPRINKLER SYSTEM BIM4HOUSING ROUNDTABLES 30-06-23

RICHARD …to update and improve on the guidance we put together 18 months ago for 12 fire critical assets. George will now put things into context for us.

GEORGE It’s interesting, I don’t know if you saw the post that I put out last night that the building safety regulator will no longer be regulated under the HSE.

(shares screen). Just to explain broadly where we fit in the rest of the ecosystem, what BIM4Housing is about is really moving BIM away from being just about 3D modelling to being about information management. We've got six working groups that meet every couple of months to determine what information could make jobs easier. And as a result of that, we generate workstreams who actually carry out activities to improve, for example, data and produce standardised data templates, reusable libraries, The guidance that were going through today, Sustainability is becoming increasingly important and also methods of creating digital records. So what we're finding is that people are looking at information in different ways. So if you're involved in specification or construction or maintenance or energy you'll need different information for different purposes.

So there's different levels of information needed, so we're gonna go into quite a lot of detail about sprinkler systems today. Other people will just want to know that they're getting it from a qualified and responsible supplier. There's also information what we've learned over the last couple of years needs to be machine-readable, but other information could actually be delivered as a data sheet, for example, so being able to identify which is which is going to be an important thing going forward. Also, things like safety, case reports and inspection need to be live and kept up to date. It’s not just a matter of do we have a document that's telling us where the risks are, it’s a management exercise of keeping everything up to date and we need to be able to tie things back to an individual asset record as well.

So one of the challenges that we've got is that we've our worked with golden threads has been in some ways too successful because everybody's got a golden thread now and that seems OK until you consider that for a door you might have lots of different golden threads. You might have a construction golden thread which is monitoring whether data is available, has been provided during the construction process, but also the manufacturers information and then also the location information. So all of that needs to then tie back to a single source, for example, you might have the manufacturer's data that's held in one data set, then somebody will come along and do an inspection using a survey tool like Plan Radar or Hilti or Civica. All of these applications are creating data sets and what we need to do is make sure they're all time back to a unique record that is therefore being maintained, not create dozens of golden threads that then are difficult to navigate around. That's not to say we shouldn't be using those applications. It's a matter of making sure that the data's open. Also, why do we need machine readable data?

So in this case, we've got a data sheet manufacturers data sheet that's got some really good information on it, but you'd need to be a human to read it and interpret it, so computers can't read this. Something important for a door is its fire rating and yet if we look at this one, it's described in a certain way. Another door data sheet is described completely differently, and yet another one here is described completely differently. So ideally we need to get those standardised. There’s been a lot of work that we've been involved in over the last two or three years with people like HACT to actually create standardised data templates for products so that we can then hold that information, either for new build or for existing buildings. Now the work to do that is worthwhile because then it means that we can automatically populate any software application that needs that data. So that's providing the golden thread, but it does need to be working to standardise data sets. So as part of that exercise we've gone through and created standardised data libraries for 250 asset types that were common across all the housing associations. And we've gone through and we've allocated to them their Uniclass definition and also their BIM classification IFC.

And we've also started to work towards picking up the different ways in which things are described. So here, for example, we've got an automatic opening vent but in many cases databases will call it an AOV or a smoke vent or an automatic air vent. So all of those are right, it just means that we need to rationalise them. In databases we can use synonyms to prevent them from being duplicated, and that helps glue everything together. We've also gone through and identified that 71 of those asset types were fire related and 152 related to sort of the wider safety issue. So again, it enables us to focus on things. The other aspect in terms of which data is needed, there's some information that's generic to any type of product. So here, for example, knowing who the manufacturer is, the model number, maybe the warranty description, what material it is. Those are common to any type of product, and they don't change whether you're talking about a smoke vent, a door or a fire damper or a sprinkler. And the thing that makes that particular product different are the attributes. And that's the thing that we're trying to cover today.

And what attributes should we be including? The fact is that there's a wide range of them. So for example, in the BIM world, we use something called IFC i a data dictionary. We’ve also got classification systems. CIBSE have got their own data set that is slightly different to what’s in the BIM world. We’ve also got cost management systems that have got attribute information and builders merchants and distributors, they use something called ETIM, so that’s another one that needs to be managed. So in this particular case, this is just looking at the AUV we did last Monday, we've got a range of different attributes here that are important to an AOV, but actually they're not, in many cases wind load rating is probably for a design perspective rather than, for example, asset management. So therefore we can perhaps trim some of these things back. It's a matter of what information is actually needed for a particular purpose.

There are a number of people on this call, Alan Brinson for example, who helped us 18 months ago when we actually went through and set up the initial work for the Golden Thread Initiative where we were advising the government in terms of what data is needed from last set management perspective. And in many cases when we asked the subject matter experts most of the responses that we got on all of the products was it depends. There's so many variables that will depend on what information you need. And we've got building regs that you've got to comply with, but that refers to something like 800 different standards. So what we're trying to do is to focus around these 250 asset types because if we can get that right, and more importantly, maybe the 150 or so that safety related, it means that we’ve got a chance of getting on top of this.

So in terms of the exercise last year we focused on 12 asset types. The methodology that was used on all of them is to really look and determine what information, what does an asset comprise, but importantly also giving it some context for the questions that are being asked. So the idea of this is that a fire breaks out in the kitchen. The smoke potentially is the thing that we're trying to limit the spread of, because as I've been told on these sessions, it tends to be smoke that kills rather than fire. But it's protected from spreading by a number of different asset types that need all to work in concert. So we've got compartmentation, smoke control and detection systems, for example. And all of those need to be in the right state, so that then provides maybe a context in which the things are going to be measured. So this is the work that we’re going to go through today:  What are the component elements? What dependencies are there on other systems? What risk does the sprinkler system mitigate? Because that’s something that the HSE is particularly bothered about. What do people do to sprinkler systems to prevent them from working? And then what information do we need?

So this is the data that I was just explaining earlier that we want to be able to…this is the additional attribute information which is probably over and above the standard COBie, some of this is COBie. But then what tasks are needed to ensure that something gets installed and maintained properly. Levels of competency and then, finally, how do we ensure that any changes that take place, maybe during design to construction or then from an operational point of view, how do we ensure that changes are tracked.

RICHARD Has anybody got any questions or points to make on what George said?

STEWART KIDD I was a bit concerned that the slide which showed the information that was required for the product had no reference at all to any form of certification, either of the product or of the installer.

RICHARD Yeah, when we get into the document you’ll see we actually have a section on competence and training.

STEWART KIDD No, sorry, this is certification of the product.

GEORGE Yes, that’s in there as well.

RICHARD OK, we’re going to dive straight in. What are the component elements of a sprinkler system? This meeting is recorded and we also do a highpoints minutes of the meeting. They include everything in the chat, so use the chat, whether it’s a comment you want to make that’s not directly relevant to this document but is of interest and adjacent, Or if it’s something that needs to go into the document type it in and Jiss will add it.

WAYNE PARRIS You've got data labels missing as well. That is part of the components which make up the sprinkler system. At the flow switches data labels give you the flow rate of water that is meant to be coming out of that system at any given point.

STEWART KIDD Can I suggest the deflectors actually are part of the sprinkler head and not a separate item? And you’ve got sprinklers and sprinkler head.

RICHARD So you’re saying it’s part of the sprinkler head so it doesn’t need to be separate.

STEWART KIDD Correct.

GEORGE Would you ever from a maintenance point of view, need to replace the deflector?

ALAN BRINSON No, you’d replace the sprinkler.

STEWART KIDD And sprinklers and sprinkler head are the same thing.

PAUL BRAY I’m going back up to the introduction on the bit that Jiss set round. So above it in what is a sprinkler system, it just says on the bottom line a glass bulb type sprinkler head. Well, there’s two types, there’s a glass and a fuse type of sprinkler head, so that’s the sort of thing that if we’re going to be given guidance on it needs to be…

RICHARD Absolutely, so we need to describe the other type as well.

WAYNE PARRIS And one extra question is how are you going to manage the panel and manage the sprinkler with no panel? What is it going to be…you’ve got down the sprinkler elements, but you haven’t got what it’s going to be linked to, whether it’s going to be its own independent panel or in a fire panel. How are you going to monitor the actions that happens with that sprinkler system?

GEORGE The next thing down talks about dependencies.

WAYNE PARRIS No, but when you said the components, you've got the components, what are the components elements for a sprinkler system? You haven't got a panel down there, so there's no indication of how you manage that system. How do you get the information? How do you get the activation indications? How do you know where to look? There's no reference to a panel.

STEWART KIDD There are several items missing from this list.

RICHARD Can we go back to Paul. Does that mean we need to put another explanation of the other type of sprinkler?

PAUL BRAY I’ve just put on the chat the definitions from the two British standards that talk about fusible link and how they operate through colour coding as well.

RICHARD Fantastic. OK, so we need to put a panel on there, do we?

STEWART KIDD You got two or three different types of panel. You have local monitoring panel for the water flow alarms. You also have a panel for monitoring the pumps and you also have an electrical control panel for both the diesel and the electric pumps…we’re talking about sprinkler systems full stop. BS9251 systems are different from EN12845 systems. But they are essentially the same, it’s simply the scale that’s different.

ALAN BRINSON This whole purpose is just for residential applications. That said, you will often have a shop on the ground floor of a building, so you’re going to have the 12845 anyway.

GEORGE I would just say that although our focus should be residential, it's also the case that this is the Fire Safety Act and therefore, as I understand it, it's relevant to all building types. In particular, as Alan was saying there, if you've got a mixed-use building, I think we need to accommodate all of those. So I do think, unless it's going to distract us hugely, we need to cover both.

STEWART KIDD I'm afraid we're missing the point here. You can't split this document now at this stage and to say different type of standard because there are many, and there will be more in the future, high-rise residential buildings with an EN 12845 system in them.

GEORGE I think we’re agreeing, Stewart, I’m saying we need to accommodate both.

ALASDAIR PERRY Just one that jumps out to me and I know it could be captured in valve types, but stop valve which is a particularly crucial part of the system.

WAYNE PARRIS Padlocks as well, because you need to lock some of the valves to make sure that they are not shut down or closed off by accident.

ALAN BRINSON I’m not sure with water mist that we can actually accommodate it.

WAYNE PARRIS It falls under a different regulation, doesn’t it?

PAUL BRAY Yeah, sorry, I put it in there as a do we need to mention it because we talk about the British standards. I’ve had a look through the standard and it does give coverage for residential buildings up to 18 metres and over 18 metres. I know the industry can be split of opinions between whether a sprinkler system or a water mist system, but if we’re going to be giving guidance about suppression systems in general do we include water mist systems as part of that conversation? Or de we just ignore it and wait for it to be developed further? But the British standard that I’ve been looking at does indicate that it can be used for those types of buildings. So I think ti would be quite difficult to ignore it.

ALAN BRINSON I'll just give you some facts and then you can see where you go from there. So you’ve got a section in here on approvals and certification of installers, you don’t have that for water mist. There is a standard BS9991 that has a lot of influence on what systems go into buildings. I’m on that committee and I can tell you water mists has been excluded from it. A lot of us fell that yes, it can work, but we’re just not ready to standardise a lot of it and I think we would struggle to fit it into this system.

RICHARD So basically it’s one for the future, probably next time we review, but not this time.

ALAN BRINSON Yeah, I think so.

PAUL BRAY I agree, but I thought it was worth mentioning. I've dealt with organisations that install water mist and they've got their own opinion about how suitable they are. So I think just as long as we've had that conversation, that water mist has been considered and I'll take on board everything that's been said. So thanks.

THOMAS ROCHE It's just on the water mist element. I think putting it together with the sprinkler part is just confusing the matter. if it’s needed, it should be a separate element in its own right, so you have one section for sprinklers and then there will be a separate entry for water mist.

GEORGE So it’s a different solution.

THOMAS ROCHE Yeah, they may achieve the same thing but I think if you put them together it just causes more confusion for the end user.

RICHARD Let let's Scroll down now to are there any dependencies on other systems?

GEORGE I think, Alan, you originally did that, so presumably that's quite comprehensive.

ALAN BRINSON Yeah, but even now looking at it again, the zone valve and the stop valve we didn’t mention which should have been there.

STEWART KIDD If you're talking about pre-action systems, which you may well be for IT, then you've got fire detection, electronic fire detection.

JOHN NEWMAN I think in this section boosted domestic water systems can be used for sprinklers. It's often overlooked. It's regarded as potentially more of a system within the standard.

RICHARD Would that be just dependency?

JOHN NEWMAN yes, you might use…this happens very often in high-rise blocks as well where you've got a boosted domestic water system which is more than adequate also for the sprinkler system.

WAYNE PARRIS What about penetrations through walls and the correct mastic to be used for fire stopping?

RICHARD we’ll come on to that, this is just about dependencies on other systems.

WAYNE PARRIS I’m thinking about components because 9 times out of 10 CPC pipe is going to penetrate a wall, so part of that penetration of the wall needs to be fire-stopped. That is a component that needs to be correct.

RICHARD That’s an installation instruction that needs to be correct, isn’t it? We’ve got sections coming up on what information is required and what actions are required, so I think you’ll find that’s covered further down. Anything else on dependencies?

ALASDAIR PERRY I popped in this third-party certification, again, it depends what your definition of a system is, but to me the quality of a sprinkler system, installers…

RICHARD Yeah, we’ve got a section on competency. Let’s go down to question 1a: What risks does a sprinkler system mitigate?

WAYNE PARRIS It depends on the telephone line as well, doesn't it? Because If it's monitoring the system, it's gonna need to be able to contact.

STEWART KIDD Sorry, where do we get a third of the cases extinguishers of the fire? I don’t recognise that number.

ALAN BRINSON That comes from me. If you look at the data and the reports that we’ve got, it’s about 1/3 of the time it actually puts it out.

STEWART KIDD We always say suppress or extinguish.

ALAN BRINSON Yeah, it’s in 1/3 of the cases it extinguishes and 94-5% it controls or extinguishes.

STEWART KIDD I thought we had data that showed in domestic systems it’s 95%.

ALAN BRINSON Actually, you’re right, domestic is a bit higher. We should have that in there.

RICHARD Right, controls and suppresses 95% of residential fires.

STEWART KIDD Prevents flashover. Do we want to say a number for property loss? Reduces property loss by 80%.

THOMAS ROCHE I’m going back up the list. When it says a sprinkler system mitigates fire load growth and fire load size, I don’t understand those two terms. It doesn't make any sense from a technical perspective to me.

ALAN BRINSON The word load shouldn’t be there.

THOMAS ROCHE In terms of fire temperature suppressed, that’s also technically not the right word. It maintains a lower temperature in the room of origin, so I think you could probably take that out because that’s dealt with by the prevents flashover.

ALAN BRINSON I think we know what is meant by structural failure temperatures, but it’s not perhaps very clear. The risk is that the temperature of some of the structure reaches a point where it weakens.

GEORGE So we’ll just take out temperatures then.

RICHARD Right, let's scroll down to question 1b. To what risks are sprinkler systems themselves susceptible? Basically, what stops them working.

STEWART KIDD I’m not sure about being turned off. We need to be a bit more precise.

GEORGE Well, not really, because from an asset management point of view we’ve discovered that, literally, them being switched off is a risk.

STEWART KIDD How do you switch off a sprinkler system? If it’s got a pump you can switch the pump off.

WAYNE PARRIS that’s why the padlocks are there, to stop that.

ALAN BRINSON I think that in green is good, that’s maybe one way they can be turned off, made it rendered inoperable.

RICHARD Well, all of these risks can be mitigated and solved. The point is that we're putting them down to ensure that they are. So being turned off is relevant.

JOHN NEWMAN Systems not being commissioned, we’ve actually come across that, though it may sound crazy.

NEVILLE TOMBLIN Issues we’ve had as well is heads being wallpapered over and furniture being put in front of the heads.

RICHARD So, heads being obstructed.

WAYNE PARRIS I don't see anything there for regarding water supply. We don't always use tanks. Interruption of water supply.

ALAN BRINSON What does temperature mean? You mean it’s too hot and it sets off the sprinkler?

ALASDAIR PERRY Frozen pipes, I was think of.

ALAN BRINSON Freezing is a risk.

RICHARD Well, let’s make that a bit clearer temperature. So what are we saying here?

ALAN BRINSON Water freezing.

WAYNE PARRIS On a lot of pipes where pipes are travelling outside they put trace heating.

ALAN BRINSON Yeah, there’s ways to mitigate all of these things.

NEVILLE TOMBLIN Have you got anything later on about a false activation of the heads? Because wallpaper strippers will set the heads off.

THOMAS ROCHE But wait a minute, that’s a sprinkler system operating as it should it. It's a spurious activation rather than that being a reason why it won't work. So if we think technically.

NEVILLE TOMBLIN That’s why I said is there anything later on about that because it does activate it, but obviously it’s…

THOMAS ROCHE It’s undesired. It's something to sort of teach people to sort of say, look, if you're gonna do this sort of work, let us know. Cause I think when we're talking about sprinkle systems, things that stop it working is you just can't flow the water. So the valve is shut, the pumps off or somebody’s done something to obstruct the head.

RICHARD Actually, false activation should be…I’m wondering if that should be in a different section.

STEWART KIDD It’s not false activation, it’s improper or spurious because if you hit it with a wallpaper stripper that’s what it’s supposed to do.

WAYNE PARRIS I didn't see anything for product failure because sometimes it can be a bad batch, the motherboard could be have issues, it might work for a couple of weeks and then fail, soldering could be…I’ve not seen anything for product failure there.

RICHARD OK, that’s a good point, put product failure in there. OK, let's move down to the next question. What information is needed about sprinkler systems to ensure they perform as required? Now we're looking to dig a bit deeper into the information side of this.

THOMAS ROCHE Can you just give some context? Who is the person who needs the information?

GEORGE That’s actually the point that we don’t, there could be a whole range of different people that might want it. So what we're trying to do here is to gather together the information, it might be a designer an installer a maintainer, somebody that's doing inspections. Does that make sense. Thomas?

THOMAS ROCHE It does, it’s just sometimes I look at it and there’s a whole raft of information here that you could provide that people may want were you trying to get to a defined list for a specific person, but if we’re trying to cater for all needs this could get lengthy.

GEORGE Lengthy is not a bad thing if we can identify everything that people want we can then filter it according to the need. Just take a look down here, this is by no means as long as the list for fire doors, for example.

ALAN BRINSON It's probably response rating, is that what we would say of sprinkler heads? Rather than heat rating?

WAYNE PARRIS Category of system.

NEVILLE TOMBLIN It's also not mastic quality, it’s ensuring you use the right mastic.

GEORGE There’s two. There’s the type of mastic and then the quality of mastic.

THOMAS ROCHE But I think it's more you want to know about the compatibility of the mastic with the product.

WAYNE PARRIS Mastic data sheet, that’s what you’re gonna need to know. What the mastic is used for.

JOHN NEWMAN Compatibility is the most important word, I think.

RICHARD Remember we\re looking at building life, but in terms of maintenance the condition of the mastic is surely very important.

JOHN NEWMAN The compatibility, in residential CPVC pipe is used and sometimes within days or months or even longer the compatibility of the mastic is very important because it eats away at the pipe.

RICHARD So has anybody got anything else to add into there?

JOHN NEWMAN One thing I am concerned about, it may be in a different section, is when it comes to testing of systems we find some very spurious ways of use sometimes from doing flow tests. It’s about ensuring that there's a uniformity in the way people test the systems do flow tests, for instance.

GEORGE I think that’s an important thing here, should we say how it was tested?

JOHN NEWMAN I’ll give you an example. There’s a company, it puts a very short hose into a bucket and it does a flow test that way. It’s been a bit of a nightmare for us because they differ to our commissioning tests and then we find out that they just used little buckets to try and get an accurate reading.

WAYNE PARRIS Competency. That all deals with testing, because if you’ve got the right competency you know how to test.

GEORGE I think the point that was made is right and that is do we need to know how it was tested? So how do we express that?

JOHN NEWMAN Method used for flow test, perhaps?

RICHARD I'm still trying to get an answer for test results and commissioning. Are they two separate ones?

STEWART KIDD Yes, they are. The relevant standard specifies how our system is to be commissioned and what paperwork and commissioning certificates are to be issued. They will then show what tests were carried out.

GEORGE How does the standard tell you what tests were carried out?

WAYNE PARRIS The standard tells you how you’re meant to test, and how you’re meant to maintain it.

GEORGE So we need to know the test results.

THOMAS ROCHE Can we just go back to activation strategy. I don’t recognise that term. Are we sort of relating this to how we expect it to work? Once the sprinkler head operates, what alarms activate, what signals are meant to be passed. I don’t understand that term.

ALAN BRINSON I don’t think that came from me. I think what Tom is saying is what it means. What happens when the sprinkler system operates, what alarms are sent and to whom. Does an alarm go to a call centre.

GEORGE So it’s a valid information requirement then, isn’t it?

RICHARD It’s just that maybe it needs to be a bit clearer if we’re having to discuss what it means. Activation alarm strategy.

GEORGE And then in brackets cause and effect.

WAYNE PARRIS And also connection points should be drawings and schematics.

THOMAS ROCHE I’m…putting my insurer’s hat on. If you switch your sprinkler system off you might need to actually notify somebody. I want to be clear that we capture that because it’s one of those key things. If you isolate a system, what’s your procedure, we call it an impairment procedure, to make sure you put it back on. So if we say one of the key failings of a system is you can leave it impaired i.e. shut off when you’re doing maintenance, you need to have a procedure that says, well, if I do maintenance and I shut something off I’ve got a procedure to make sure I put it back on.

RICHARD So, the impairment procedure. OK, question 3: What tasks are required to ensure sprinkler systems are installed, commissioned, inspected and maintained? All we’ve got in this section is an example from SFG20. let’s start with installed.

GEORGE Are there any recognised procedures that are followed to ensure that something is installed correctly? …Are there any explicit tasks that are recognised that people should be following?

ALAN BRINSON I don’t know that we have, I’ve never seen anything like that.

RICHARD Has anybody got any suggestions of what would be on it? Is there anything that you think should be done prior to installation?

WAYNE PARRIS The reason why I said design was because it depends on the location of the building. The building could be out in a field somewhere where the design would be different because you have to use a tank. I mean you have to use the source of water of what’s there, it could be a pond, a pool, a lake, so you might have to use that source for your water supply. Whereas if you’re inside the city you will obviously have to install a tank, so it’s the way it’s designed before it can be installed that you have to get right.

GEORGE Yeah, we’re not saying that isn’t right, Wayne, all we’re asking with this question is are there any recognised tasks that we could use?

PAUL BRAY There’s a whole section on installation commissioning in documentation within the British standards, Part 6 of BS9251. I can go to the other British standard 12845 and find out for you, but there’s stuff.

STEWART KIDD It’s all in there, and also the impairment procedure is in there too in the annex…insure as well as the fire brigade.

GEORGE OK, I’m cautious of putting simply references to British standards that people may or may not have access to. But let’s put them in.

STEWART KIDD BAFSA has an information sheet which summarises all the information for maintenance of both types of systems and we're very happy to let you use that text.

PAUL BRAY And in the British standard you can just take the highlights, it says commissioning and in addition to full visual, you do system air purge, leakage test, hydraulic test, alarm test, compliance certificate being issued. So you can just less those and then if anybody wants any more details, obviously they're gonna employ a competent person to do this.

GEORGE Paul, could you copy those out for us so we could incorporate something?

PAUL BRAY I have got to be careful not to breach the copyright for the British standard, so I can give you a flavour, let’s put it that way.

GEORGE And also reference the standard, so people know which one. The problem is there are 800 standards referred to in building regs, each of which costs probably £200-300. I’m not talking about the commercial side of things, but it’s just knowing which standard to go to.

PAUL BRAY Yeah, for sure, I think it’s good to sign post, but if anybody is in the profession of doing this they should be able to get access to the standard. But for a layperson having a view and understanding, they’re not going to get the full details. So I’ll pull something together on the commissioning and I’ll take the flavour from both of the two standards that I’m looking at.

RICHARD Question 4: What level of competency training needs to be in place? This has been raised by a number of you. We’ll start with installation. This is all pretty much generic stuff. If there's something that is particularly relevant to sprinklers sprinkler systems, that would be good to know.

STEWART KIDD The LPS 1301 scheme is actually not being supported. It hasn’t been amended since 2014 and there are no companies still listed to it. We should perhaps make it clear that 1048 is also used for residential installers. It’s not actually just for commercial, it covers Level 1 to level 4 and there are many small companies who do residential who are Level 1 installers. Delete commercial, put in sprinkler installers. The 1048 scheme has a training requirement for designers and they have to pass an exam, so I’m not quite sure how you’d express that here. And I’m not sure why you’ve given an exact reference for IFCC because that’s exactly the training company. IFCC is now KIWA IFCC.

ALAN BRINSON And just above that, it says compensate competency and training of installers that should be LPS, not LSP. Does anybody know what SDI is, I’ve never heard of it?

PENCHO STUDENKOV SDI is the IFC schemes for the installers for the sprinklers.

ALAN BRINSON In the chat Tom has pointed out that there are some companies that have the LPS1301 accreditation. So you can just enter that list in the brackets, LPS 1048, you can add LPS1301.

RICHARD Alright, let's move down to maintenance.

ALAN BRINSON I don't know if it should be said here, but you want the people doing the maintenance to have this accreditation as well.

GEORGE Is that desirable or is it mandatory?

ALAN BRINSON It’s not mandated by the government, we’d like it to be. Do you have anything here about showing that people keep spares? Normally the installer would provide some spares.

RICHARD Actually, that would be a risk to the system, wouldn’t it? For question 1b.

PAUL BRAY It’s funny that you should mention that because I’m just about copying that out of the British standard for it about the number of spares, replacement sprinklers.

GEORGE Inadequate spares is a major risk.

ALAN BRINSON Frankly, unless the sprinkler operates, you’re not going to need to replace it normally. But then when that happens and you haven’t got one it could be a problem.

GEORGE we mentioned spares in this one about competency.

RICHARD Let’s go onto question 5, it’s about change management. How are changes from one product to another recorded?

GEORGE So the purpose of this is twofold. One is looking at the gateways and how do we manage design and build, for example. And is it possible, does it ever happen, that the sprinkler system that was designed is not what gets installed because it gets value engineered down the line. That’s one question, and the other is in 10-15 years time are there elements that get replaced? And therefore would individual heads be replaced?

RICHARD Again, these are generic, there’s nothing specific in this to sprinkler systems. Is there anything specific that you would want to include?

JOHN NEWMAN I use the term a lot when dealing with service clients, future proofing systems. For instance, we get a lot of property in Wales with Welsh water connections failing after a year or so, because they reduce pressures or whatever. So we tried to take this into account when we are designing systems, so future proofing is quite an issue. There are a lot of systems in Wales at the moment that are now failing, even though they were installed to the standard.

THOMAS ROCHE It’s along the same lines as John was talking about. When I think about changes to sprinkler systems that happen during a build, it’s normally layout changes. So what was designed needs to be relaid out because the spacing of the heads is very critical. So it’s not really a product change, it’s almost that line that bullet point says, formal change management. Ensure that any unavoidable changes are validated by a responsible person e.g. original designer or a fire engineer, but particularly layouts, that’s the sort of thing that that I see that catches people out that suddenly the layout has changed, so you’ve got to relay out the design. That’s a challenge that you can’t really do on the hoof, or you should avoid doing on the hoof because that leads to problems.

ALAN BRINSON Any unavoidable changes such as to the sprinkler layout.

RICHARD MICHAEL Building layout might be a better word, rather than sprinkler layout.

RICHARD OK, I’m going to call that accomplished because we’ve got a lot of work to do putting this together now. Let's hand over to George to go through his information piece, which will explain how we're looking to dig a bit deeper with a bit more granularity on the information element of this document.

GEORGE So somebody was saying earlier that we want to know who wants the information and for what purpose and that's exactly what we want to try and get to. So with all of the different asset types, what we're doing is we're following the RACI methodology where we can say who's actually responsible for providing the information, who is accountable for it, who needs to be consulted and who needs to be informed. So for the information sets that were there already, we've added to those today, which is great, and corrected some of them. What we're going to want to do is to say, right, who's responsible, for example, for determining the location of the individual assets. What I'm looking for from this is for people from you who are willing to maybe join another session with other subject matter experts to actually look at this from a point of view of determining who would be responsible for certain things and who needs to be kept informed.

So if you're interested in that and you’d like to be involved in the conversation, if you could put your name into the chat with the thing against it, saying data or process or application. You might be interested in all three of those, but we're probably going to do them in that sort of order so that we can then create this into something that then becomes more consumable because by doing that it means that we can start to filter out a lot of information and just present people with the information that they need.

The other aspects of this is that we want to identify which of this information is going to be static or not really changing or which of it is actually going to be active and unique to every building. So for example, the manufacturer and model number is probably going to be static and could be provided on a product data sheet whereas the location of something, that is unique to every project. I accept the fact that once something has been installed it’s fixed, but it’s a variable in comparison with the manufacturers information. The connection points and things like that are probably going to be fixed, but the testing commissioning information is going to be active or variable.

So if you’re interested, we’re all volunteers and we’re trying to make the most of the time that we're spending together to the best effect. I think the reason you've dedicated this time to helping us today is because you’re bothered. So it’s a matter of really using that to best effect. So please sign up and we’ll invite you in.

RICHARD Excellent. Well, it's been a great session. Certainly that document is gonna be one hell of a lot better for your efforts, I can assure you.

GEORGE Could I just ask one other thing. One of the things that we’re trying to do is help housing associations and councils make sense of the O&M information they’ve got. One of the requests I’ve got is that if you know people who’ve been through that journey and have experience of being able to read and interpret O&Ms, that would be very useful if you could put us in touch with them. We’re going to be doing a lot of that sort of work as Active Plan going forward and it would be helpful if we can tap into people that have got that knowledge. It might be somebody that’s maybe even very experienced, maybe even retired, who's’ interested in some paid work for that type of thing. So if you know of people who have got that type of expertise, please let us know. Because at the end of the day there is a huge amount of knowledge in the industry that just gets lost every year as people aren’t able to engage.

ADDENDUM

CHAT

Alan Brinson

Deflector is part of the sprinkler.

Paul Bray

Something to use from the two main British standards as part of the introduction.Sprinkler heads should have a thermal sensitivity rating conforming to BS EN 12259-14. Fusible link
sprinklers should be colour coded on the frame or sprinkler body. Glass bulb sprinklers should be
colour coded by the bulb liquid and conform to BS EN 12259-14 or BS EN 12259-1.
3.61
sprinkler, fusible link
sprinkler which opens when a component provided for this purpose melts
3.62
sprinkler, glass bulb
sprinkler which opens when a liquid-filled glass bulb bursts.

another component will be Uninterruptible Power Supplies (UPS)

Alan Brinson

Also zone valves

Paul Bray

do we dare mention watermist systems?

Alan Brinson

Too hard.

Alasdair Perry

stop valve.

Stewart Kidd

We need stop valves, alarm valves and check valves as well as drain valves.

Tomblin, Neville

It is not always possible to have a UPS system due to lack of space when retrofitting

Stewart Kidd

Add:  Sprinkler monitoring panel, electric pump control panel, diesel pump control/battery charger

Watermist is excluded from ADB

Richard Michael

Electrical supply/secondary supply

Alasdair Perry

Managerial controls

third party certification

Roche, Thomas

I do not understand open plan office comment - how is that a Dependency?

Alasdair Perry

Environmental impact of fires

Paul Bray

re - flashover, I would use the term 'reduces the potential of a flashover'

Alasdair Perry

Financial loss

Tomblin, Neville

Valves being turned off by residents.

Paul Bray

There are several areas where a residential sprinkler system can be isolated

Richard Michael

Back-up power not installed. Power cut-residents light candles increasing fire risk-no cover from sprinklers during high risk period if no back up power.

Alasdair Perry

temperature

Paul Bray

damaged during other maintenance work.

Richard Michael

Room changes leaving sprinkler heads in the wrong position within the space/no head within the space.

Paul Bray

just call it cause and effect.

in a residential building over 18m if the sprinkler system is off or at fault it must be reported to FRS within 24 hours

Richard Michael

Review system coverage when space changes are made in the building or areas become higher risk.

Stewart Kidd 

Maintenance requirements:

Alasdair Perry

https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2020/10/BIF16b.pdf

https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2017/09/WEB_BIF16A.pdf

Stewart Kidd

Residential: https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2017/09/WEB_BIF16A.pdf

Industrial and Commercial: https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2020/10/BIF16b.pdf

Roche, Thomas

Please remove references to the BSA they are not a installer/competency group.

Pencho Studenkov

Competency and training of installers (LSP1048; FIRAS, SDI 23, etc.)

Roche, Thomas

We need to come back to you on LPS 1301 - as there appear to be three companies with this certification.

Richard Michael

Recommended stock spare parts should be included in the O&Ms