{"id":251,"date":"2024-05-28T15:53:43","date_gmt":"2024-05-28T15:53:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/bim4housing.com\/advisory\/?page_id=251"},"modified":"2024-05-28T16:06:45","modified_gmt":"2024-05-28T16:06:45","slug":"bim4housing-advisory-working-group-meeting-23-05-2024","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/bim4housing.com\/advisory\/bim4housing-advisory-working-group-meeting-23-05-2024\/","title":{"rendered":"BIM4HOUSING: ADVISORY WORKING GROUP MEETING 23-05-2024"},"content":{"rendered":"
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BIM4Housing: Advisory Working Group Meeting 23-05-2024<\/strong><\/h2>\n

RICHARD \u2026A lot of people there and we covered a lot of ground, but it mostly boiled down to knowledge management, we touched on Ai in the meeting. So the idea of today is to go and delve a little deeper into that and look at some of the tools that are available that people don\u2019t necessarily know are available. Debbie keeps up on that to a large extent, so we thought it was worth going through that and then having discussion around the pros and cons and if anybody knows of anything else.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE Just so everyone understands my background, I was an engineer a long time ago, I now specialise in the AI area of competency management and knowledge management. A lot of people wouldn\u2019t think to go to the competency world to think that you might get some of your AI knowledge management problems solved, but I\u2019ll bring that out as we go along. Just at the moment in terms of the Building Safety Act, there is actually no knowledge management agenda underneath it. We\u2019ve got this very complex landscape of regulations, guidance, often overlapping or competing. PAS which relate to product processes or people, a whole lot of competency frameworks etc and all of these, some of them are still in process and evolving.<\/p>\n

We know there is no shortage of evidence that there is still a lack of sector what I call knowledge and knowhow concerning the Building Safety Act and particularly how to embed it in terms of the why, what, how, when, where and who of the building safety activities across complex supply chains. So there\u2019s no knowledge management agenda from the owners of regulations guidance PAS. BSI do have what they call a smartification programme around their standards and they\u2019ve reviewed the sort of work that I do, but they\u2019re behind the curve in terms of semantic interoperability you need to make sense of knowledge. And there is clear demand for people who want to better be able to understand the Building Safety Act in a simple human manner which they\u2019re not able to at the moment.<\/p>\n

I\u2019ve talked to a few people in HSE who are in AI groups there and maybe beginning to look at this knowledge challenge, but at the moment there doesn\u2019t seem to be any kind of vision of what I would call an AI spec-based knowledge-based approach to solving this which is the sort of work that we also do in the competency management domain. This isn\u2019t what I\u2019m calling it, I\u2019m calling it BSA knowledge as a service, it\u2019s what we need if we want to change the landscape. Does everyone understand that? Does anyone challenge that? Are there any challenges that I haven\u2019t considered? I just tried to highlight the top ones otherwise the list could be endless.<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS I\u2019m curious as to understand how, obviously the BSA has been written in a way to be completely open and non-compliance based, it\u2019s supposed to be risk management system based so is therefore applicable to any building in any scenario. So I\u2019m curious as to how this would work in that arena.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE That\u2019s a very good question. I\u2019ll come back to it after a couple of slides, and I\u2019ll put that in as one of the challenges because I do think that is one. Just to say what Knowledge as a Service is, it\u2019s trying to find a way to actually make sense of all of the different knowledge sources to do with the Building Safety Act, be that a regulation, secondary legislation, guidance, associated PAS or competence frameworks. Because all of those are needed to help people know why, what, how, but obviously bringing in your last comment it\u2019s also about when, where and whom which is different depending on what the building is, what the risks is, what the context is. So that sort of context aware piece is very important in here.<\/p>\n

And digitising knowledge is not only about making it easy to access, transforming it, being it easier to interpret to contextualise, but it\u2019s also about making it much more accessible, relevant and actionable. If you look at the competency part of this which is part of the puzzle, anything to do with the competence framework and standard, you might get it in Excel but most of the time it\u2019s a PDF document, completely inert and not very useful. Digitising this should be part of the digitalisation agenda, is it? I don\u2019t know. HSE are talking about it, there\u2019s a new government group set up to do looking at more digitisation around knowledge, but it\u2019s also very early days around that.<\/p>\n

And obviously from an economic point of view knowledge is actually an information good in that it has certain attributes and the more it\u2019s used and reused and repurposed the more value you get from it. And once you have digitised it, it makes it very cheap to reproduce and disseminate etc. And just to say when I talk about a knowledge base, I\u2019m not talking about something that is a content or document management system. We\u2019re seen there\u2019s a lot of repositories, people like Matt Hodges-Long\u2019s repository of documentation. A repository is a good start, but it\u2019s not really intelligent enough to allow people to get the kind of know-how that they need out of it. It\u2019s much more a repository of structured assertions, definitions and their logical relationships.<\/p>\n

I didn't want to go too deep technically into knowledge bases and all the rest, I\u2019ll show an example of one, but this is an area that a colleague and I do quite a bit of work in. I\u2019m next going to jump into what\u2019s out there at the moment. Obviously most of you are aware of the work that Jarek has been doing in terms of his Miro board of trying to make sense of this in terms of understanding building safety regulations. We\u2019ve got another organisation called OneEngage who\u2019s also tried to how do all of these regulations, legislation etc all link together. This is an indication that people are trying to make sense of the landscape to start with, but again it doesn\u2019t answer my question of know why, when, how, whom etc. And I think those W questions are very important.<\/p>\n

We\u2019ve got Matt Hodges-Long who\u2019s got his Resource Centre and then there\u2019s other things that are going on. There\u2019s two ChatGPT-like tools that are out there, one called ConstructAI. You can go in there and query it quite intelligently about the Building Safety Act. As you see I\u2019ve put the links below so people can go and play with that. I\u2019m in the process of talking with this lot in terms of how they\u2019re going about it. Obviously, there\u2019s large language models behind this, but there\u2019s also some other things. There\u2019s another one called Athena, not quite such a nice interface. This one is drawing directly from the HSE API on the government regulations. This one I\u2019ve tested a lot because I\u2019m partnering with them in an innovation bid. So that\u2019s two ChatGPT-like things where you can go in and ask normal human questions about the Building Safety Act.<\/p>\n

They seem to be pretty reliable, pretty consistent, but for me that\u2019s one thing that would be useful for the group to test and socialise. But I know with Athena that it is being used by quite a few actors in the built environment, it\u2019s also being used in universities to help upskill people around the Building Safety Act and it\u2019s being used in some construction apprenticeships to help them understand the Building Safety Act. So it is actually being used in the sector, but again who needs to know about this, why do they need to know about it etc. This is an example of the work that I do. As you can see it\u2019s come through innovate-type funding. We take any type of competency framework or standard and we put it into a competence knowledge base, so you can do various things from it. You can abstract things from it, you can compare things, associate things, you can see how things are linked, it\u2019s got very clever semantic capabilities underneath it.<\/p>\n

No large language models, it\u2019s not necessary, we\u2019re combining machine learning with different semantic AI technologies and knowledge engineering. But in terms of our landscape here we\u2019ve got PAS, we\u2019ve got the 12 different competency working groups, that\u2019s going to result in hundreds of competence frameworks which are often derived from National Occupational Standards and iFATE Occupational Standards. There\u2019s also standards around sustainability, innovation, digital, there\u2019s a new one just come out from AI from the Turing Institute on AI competencies and that\u2019s going to be customised for the built environment. All of these are coming out, so we have this proliferation. There\u2019s no digitalisation from the industry competence committee, if we even know what they\u2019re actually doing.<\/p>\n

Our approach is we put it all in competence knowledge base. This competence knowledge base is architected for any system of competence and that\u2019s a very important thing. We\u2019re just finishing the NOS one and now we can compare National Occupational Standards in the built environment to iFATE Occupational Standards which no one else has been able to achieve yet, so it\u2019s a first of its kind.<\/p>\n

RICHARD Could you explain what you mean by that?<\/p>\n

DEBBIE If you want to compare an occupational standard from iFATE which underpins a lot of the technical education and qualifications like apprenticeships, but not just apprenticeships, you want to compare it to a National Occupational Standard, you can compare it at the standard level or you can compare it statement by statement to see how much overlap or similarities there is. Because if you look at working group 2, for example, nearly all of their competence frameworks, which they\u2019re working with CITB on, are all derived from a combination of NOS and iFATE. But there is no traceability of this and they\u2019re making stupid mistakes by taking a duty statement out which is quite important considering the Building Safety Act is about the duty regime.<\/p>\n

They\u2019re taking duties and putting them in knowledge statements and stupid things like that because people don\u2019t understand what they\u2019re dealing with. You\u2019ve got people who are playing around in the world of competence who know nothing about competency management and not AI. So those are some of the examples I come to and then these are some of the possible actions. Do we push HSE to consider more of a knowledge management approach here? Do we take a task of defining what we think good knowledge management might look like for our audience? And why do we socialise these tools and initiatives, do we collaborate to try and get some kind of sector knowledge sharing platform or knowledge base.<\/p>\n

As we discussed in the last thing, do we take on a group as a role of experts to try and standardise some interpretations that are needed to seek clarity? But if you do that without any knowledge management we\u2019ll just be adding another knowledge source to the chaos.<\/p>\n

RICHARD Yeah, and that\u2019s kind of the route that we\u2019ve been taking throughout, trying to standardise.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE And if we\u2019re leading anything in this domain who are we aiming it to benefit and why? So it\u2019s not for me to say what\u2019s in scope here, or not, it\u2019s just to say what I found out in the landscape and what is sensible.<\/p>\n

JACK DEARLOVE I have a question, Debbie, because I think you\u2019re right on the money there. Often in construction we get lost in our little areas who we\u2019re talking to, so I raised my head out of this group and was looking elsewhere and I noticed that there\u2019s quite a few groups looking at the Building Safety Act and trying to do something similar, like Build UK have got some groups going on. Obviously, the FIS had some things going on, CIO I believe is the other one.<\/p>\n

So I think there\u2019s a lot of people trying to answer the difficult questions, I don\u2019t think anyone has got the answers yet. I still think there is a lot of value in this group but it\u2019s like you say, understanding the landscape and where does this objective sit within that and what area are we fulfilling that the others aren\u2019t, which is quite a difficult question to answer.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE It is. I\u2019m aware of some of the stuff that Build UK do, I work with FIS, so I can add that back in. What specifically around CIOB, I have seen they\u2019ve been doing quite a lot of stuff on LinkedIn, but I haven\u2019t seen anything that I would call is anything intelligent of the knowledge side of the Building Safety Act from them.<\/p>\n

JACK DEARLOVE I suppose you\u2019ve hit the nail on the head again, using the word \u2018intelligent\u2019. I\u2019ve been incited to Building Safety Act guidance with the CIOB, so they\u2019re running a level of training, it wouldn\u2019t necessarily mean that it\u2019s intelligent. The BFIS, Ian McIlroy is an absolutely phenomenal individual, but again, what he presents is intelligent obviously and what he delivers is backed by his intelligence, but maybe the gap isn\u2019t necessarily a group. Although the one that is creating a group is Build UK, I believe they\u2019re creating, they haven\u2019t used the words that i\u2019d use which is like a safe are for experts to share honestly.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE But they do have their publications that they bring out with their updates, so I\u2019ll add in some of that to the deck and some of the stuff that\u2019s going on training wise. I wasn\u2019t going to be concentrating too much on training because everyone thinks training is a solution without actually sorting the knowledge management issue out at the moment. You can\u2019t prove that most of the training programmes are directly inferred or related or drive from the Acts or guidance and that\u2019s what we need.<\/p>\n

JACK DEARLOVE I think there\u2019s still real value in having a group of experts that can be questioned and share knowledge, I still think there is a gap in the market there. But like I say, I just had a look around and I noticed those three that were doing it.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE And then I think related to it you have these AI groups which people like James Bowles from 4D who\u2019s set up an AI group in the built environment. HSE, I\u2019ve just spoken to their guy who\u2019s leading the AI group. So there\u2019s various people who are in the AI group, but they seem to be just open exploratory things and I keep saying to them \u2018this is a really good thing to concentrate on\u2019. A lot of them weren\u2019t aware of some of those ChatGPT-like tools that I\u2019ve put out there. And the other thing is there\u2019s also stuff that\u2019s going on from Innovate, which I can\u2019t say yet, but there may be some Innovate led initiative around sort of more AI knowledge management, which wouldn\u2019t just be construction. Have any of you heard of the BridgeAI programme?<\/p>\n

BridgeAI is an Innovate and UKRAi led initiative, I sit on the advisory board. The four target sectors include construction, so there is a lot of money going into AI in the built environment and there is funding. There\u2019s free upskilling as well around AI, they also have a skills & talent, so I\u2019m trying to get them to do a knowledge management AI group. So that might be useful if we do because it might provide us with some funding because it\u2019s all very well what we can do, but if we could derive some funding to prove some of this is possible, then I think it\u2019s sensible. The gentleman who raised the risk system-based question, how would that in your view change what's needed from managing all of these knowledge sources to do with the Building Safety Act intelligently? Not as a solution, as a need.<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS As a need from a client, it\u2019s probably best to explain, what you\u2019ve just talked me through would be useful as a client and then where the gap would be as me being trying to purchase it. As a client I think I would find the things you\u2019ve just talked to effectively being able to put into an AI, do I need to register my building, and put the measurements in of the building or even just a photograph or whatever, I can imagine that being useful. So that would replace solicitors or, potentially, engineers. The issue about the risk management system part of it is the Building Safety Act is just silence on it, other than to require one. The guidance says you should be applying something like 45001 or 9997.<\/p>\n

That is so open to the variables within a sizeable organisation, so an Ai would need to understand what the difference and expectations from a right to manage, Ma and Pa have one building compared to a Sanctuary or a Clarion who\u2019ve got dozens of the things, and the organisational complexity that that entails. The procurement complexity that happens in the social housing sector vs the private sector. And all of those sorts of multifaceted pieces that are so dependent on hundreds of variables, I could understand how AI would be amazing for that, but none of it is prescribed in the BSA. So if the focus is on the BSA and subsequent regulations and guidance then there would be a gap there. The whole point of the systemic approach is to add a human in there to weigh risks and what not, so it\u2019s not necessarily to say that this isn\u2019t incredibly valuable, to be able to replace solicitors would be immensely valuable.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE If you follow what\u2019s going on with AI in the legal session, it\u2019s moving so fast, it\u2019s enormous. Already more and more cases are being dealt with by AI, so it is there. In some ways because the regulations are designed as they are as the regulations, doing this in the competence area around all of these wretched PAS and competence frameworks and standards is easier to do because you can get to being\u2026action this. As a starting point it\u2019s an easier point to do it, but equally we have also taken other ISO standards and all the rest and extracted those using AI quite successfully and been very clear about what\u2019s an actual requirement and what\u2019s a possibility. So, there are ways of doing this and there are some good lessons to be learned from work that\u2019s going on around digitalising planning and planning and compliance.<\/p>\n

So there are other domains that we can bring in that have learnt some lessons in this, but at the moment even if we could make more available tools like those ChatGPT ones with perhaps some more refinement or testing of them, that could be helpful as a minimum.<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS I\u2019m from Orbit Housing, we\u2019ve got 45,000 properties, 25 HRBs, so not massive but enough skin in the game to feel the pain. There are questions around, another classic example would be do I need to run through Building Control for this particular situation. It raises another point that was striking me in the head as you were talking, I\u2019m not entirely sure the BSR knows the answer to some of these. I\u2019m in the room with them, I\u2019m still assisting back on the golden thread guidance, so I\u2019m helping them write some of that and it\u2019s pretty clear that there are certain facets that they haven\u2019t made decisions on and they\u2019re in learning mode just as much as we are.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE Yeah, but then the knowledge management system has to say what\u2019s available is this. At the end of the day this isn\u2019t taking away human decision making or people doing it. If there\u2019s not an exact answer to the question then you give it a low confidence score, that\u2019s what we do in the competence domain, depending on the quality of the knowledge source you use a confidence index as a proxy. So you get a result saying this is Level 2.<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS That wasn\u2019t where my mind was going, my mind was going to bloody hell, this would be useful for the Regulator, literally to say what are our low confidence confluences across all of this. And it almost gives them a gap analysis of where they haven\u2019t given enough guidance and they can judiciously go through it and say well, actually we don\u2019t want to give guidance there because that is a management system thing.<\/p>\n

Or, oh, we haven\u2019t given enough information for people to actually apply to Building Control. Unfortunately, we had a fire in one of our buildings, we\u2019re one of the first in the country (if not the first) to apply for Building Control to do something major to our building. And we found that they haven\u2019t actually got anything, they\u2019ve had to invent on the back foot a template for us, and it\u2019s not quite there yet. And a tool for them, when we were talking about clients, the BSR might be chomping at the bit for something like this.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE I tried to get in touch with another senior guy at Innovate who\u2019s been talking with HSE on them taking a kind of knowledge management approach, but I couldn\u2019t get hold of him this morning to get an update. But I have fed in some of this thinking to them, I haven\u2019t shared any detailed work that we\u2019ve got because I want some IP protection before I do.<\/p>\n

JACK DEARLOVE In that example that Neil had there, it\u2019s great to have the IP and the tools that we\u2019re discussing, but also if you\u2019ve got an expert group we could share ideas. In my previous role I owned the golden thread at a Tier 1 main contractor and I built up the process by which we\u2019d develop that golden thread using expert consultants in building safety regulations. We\u2019d then build up what we need for each one of those buildings, what do we need in terms of storage, what did we need to keep for 15 or 30 years, the whole process around that.<\/p>\n

When we checked that with the BSR they weren\u2019t necessarily ready to actually interpret or understand what we\u2019d given to them. But if we had, as well as the tools that we\u2019re talking about, an actual knowledge group, it could be hey, has anyone had this experience, what do you do. And I\u2019d say we\u2019ve done the same and so what we did is created the capture method so that we captured enough that was cost effective to still deliver the project but protected us long-term. Just in case when the building regulators catch up they check and they go, yeah, you guys have got everything in the background. So that might be just as valuable as a tool.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE Well, it is, because if you\u2019re doing an audit, if the fact that you\u2019ve used some tools that are available and you\u2019ve used an expert group, you\u2019ve tried hard to do the job and answer the question. And that\u2019s traceable which is important. I\u2019ll take it as an action to try and get an update from this contact around what HSE are doing or looking at. I don\u2019t know whether it\u2019s going to go under this AI group they have already, or whether they\u2019re setting up a separate group or initiative. Certainly, at last, this AI knowledge management piece is coming to the fore, I\u2019ve been waiting for it to get to the table, but it\u2019s coming.<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS Once you\u2019ve got all the protections that you need, to your point, Jack. For my sins I chair the National Housing Federation\u2019s National Building Safety Group that has two dozen of the larger housing associations knocking around the place, messing around with building safety these days. I\u2019m more than happy to bring you along to talk about this thought process.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE Fine, I\u2019ve done some work with Direct Works and I did do a big social housing project, it finished the middle of last year, we worked with six housing associations and we put in a competency management and compliance platform, jolly bloody hard work. I spent more of my time educating people about what competence was and competency to comply, so it was not an easy process. But if you can make the heavy lifting easier for these people, if you can just say to people OK, we know in social housing you have these type of operatives, they do 71 tasks. Just update their competency profiles and context of those tasks with anything they have to meet in terms of all of these array of competency frameworks, press the button, that\u2019s what they need.<\/p>\n

They don\u2019t need any more than to do that, just give me what people do, give me the context, you tell me what the right profile is. That\u2019s what we need to do, it needs to be as simple as that and that\u2019s possible now. If it\u2019s more heavy lifting than that, people haven\u2019t got time to go through all of these frameworks and then find, oh, well actually I\u2019ve already got people who are qualified in that because they\u2019ve done that apprenticeship. if you haven\u2019t made it clear, it\u2019s just a mess, absolutely shocking. And as for the industry competence committee, God knows what they\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS Just one more steer for you, Debbie. There is another organisation that\u2019s springing to mind called the Compliance Workbook, they\u2019ve got an interesting approach to competence. They\u2019re mostly focused on old school compliance stuff around electrical safety, gas checks and all of that sort of stuff. But what they do is they have a way of reading all of the certificates, so effectively it\u2019s a PDF reader, and what it does is compares it to the existing standards to see whether the readings you get match, all of the random stuff that electricians and gas engineers do. Ryan Dempsey is the guy behind that<\/em>.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE I\u2019d say what he does is very complimentary to what we do, it\u2019s not competing. I\u2019ve been meaning to catch up with him.<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS He compliments what you\u2019re doing perfectly because what you\u2019re looking at here is the skills and knowledge part and he\u2019s looking at the experience and behaviour part.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE We don\u2019t just deal with the knowledge side, we can actually deal with the data side. We also deal with voice and dialogue. You\u2019re not going to get a 59-year-old roofer giving you a CV, but if you ask him what he\u2019s done, where he\u2019s done it and all the rest. So we\u2019ve done that before, we can mind voice data as well. I\u2019ve just been showing you the knowledge side, we also deal with all of the unstructured data side, we can take any source of unstructured data about a person. But also we deal with things like we profile a product, a process, a project, a team, a person, a job, a role, it\u2019s much broader. So if we know a product does this we can infer what competencies are related to a product, so it\u2019s much broader than just knowledge, skills and behaviours and experience. We actually look at 13 dimensions of competence, not just the ones that they\u2019re doing, we take 8 perspectives to competency management.<\/p>\n

We\u2019ve been doing this for 10 years, a lot of it has been derived from other sectors like oil and gas, military, where I did a lot of my hard training. I\u2019m not a military person, but I have worked in that environment a lot. But I think the thing is there\u2019s actually more going on in the landscape than people realise, but we haven\u2019t got any way of bringing the best parts and putting it together as what I\u2019d call a set of digital utilities which can help people which is what\u2019s needed. If no one's got the time or the effort to do all of this. Richard, I\u2019m very glad that we\u2019ve had this because it\u2019s useful. I will take the slides that I\u2019ve got and I\u2019d like to add in some of the points that have been made, some of the other things that we know are going on, just to broaden it out.<\/p>\n

And then we can share it and then if we feel that we want to run it with a bigger group we do it. It would also be useful to see if George has anything else coming out, if anybody else has anything that they\u2019ve heard at the Building Safety Regulator event yesterday. I\u2019d be keen to know if anything was even raised in this domain in that event yesterday, I suspect not, I couldn\u2019t see it on the agenda.<\/p>\n

RICHARD Let me just ask Will and Jeremy, have you got any points that you\u2019d like to make on this?<\/p>\n

WILL FRANKS Nothing from me really. I've just been making some notes in the background there. I appreciate we said the slides are gonna be sent out and I've been having a look at some of these tools. It\u2019s all new to me. I'm absolutely fascinated by some of this stuff. I'm joining from Adelard, we are a system safety consultancy. So we help train people up to make safety cases and we have a software tool that people use to compile and to maintain their cases going forwards. So I agree with what we said at the start about BSA knowledge and that really people are still in the dark on this. The thing that interested me at the conference was understanding where we fit into the context.<\/p>\n

This regime has been in place\u2026the law got passed 2 years ago, it\u2019s slowly coming into force in reality, but this is a couple of years now and people are still murky, confused about their duties, their responsibilities, mixed messaging. I think some people were a bit diasspointed at the conference, they wanted a bit more tangible, hard recommendations.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE I offered to speak and show them something tangible.<\/p>\n

WILL FRANKS A lot of it was quite wooly. The one bit that got a lot of people\u2019s attention was that the golden thread standard is going to be published next month which a lot of people were happy to hear because people have been waiting for that for a long time. But a lot of it was still quite wooly, it\u2019s a moving feast all of this sort of stuff. The safety case standard is not going to be published. There\u2019s some recommendations, there is a safety case tool kit, but the idea of having this is what a good safety case looks like for housing, that\u2019s not forthcoming. I think anything that is going to help people with this is definitely of interest and as a team we\u2019re going to have to look into these sorts of AI tools and help people to demystify it a bit. So thank you. it\u2019s really interesting.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE Is the golden thread standard going to be a BSI standard, or a PAS, or what?<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS I\u2019m helping to write it. It\u2019s effectively published by the Construction Leadership Council, but we\u2019ve written it in conjunction with the BSP and DLUHC, so they\u2019ve been in all of our sessions giving us a steer here and there, and then we\u2019ve been giving them a steer. It\u2019s quite a collective bit of work. It\u2019s not going to be as granular as people are craving, but it\u2019s more granular than anything they\u2019ve had before and the idea is that it\u2019s a starter for ten, it will be an iterative process where we keep going back and keep going back.<\/p>\n

RICHARD So, it\u2019s a step in the right direction, but not much more than that.<\/p>\n

NEIL YEOMANS From the conversations I\u2019ve had with people who haven\u2019t really thought about the golden thread and starting to tackle it, it gives them a really good steer. Those people, they\u2019ll find it very useful. For people that have been on the BIM and you guys, you\u2019ll probably think this is trying to teach a set of five-year-olds on what to do. Part of the driver for us writing it was, when I mentioned the Ma and Pa bands out there, there are a lot of right-to-manage directors that are currently being ripped off by a lot of consultants that do really need this steer.<\/p>\n

So the way I\u2019ve described it in the session, and I think it\u2019s an analogy that works, is they are trying to fly a 747 and we\u2019ve sort of written the guide for the people that are trying to fly a 747 aeroplane. But there are people out there, like me, who are trying to fly a flight of 747s and the challenge is much more difficult. We\u2019ve probably written it for about 25% of it will be useful to the fleet flyers, but it will be very useful for someone who\u2019s just got a single plane that they\u2019re trying to keep in the air. And that\u2019s why it will keep getting cycled through and continuously improved.<\/p>\n

JEREMY MALET I\u2019ve picked up on a few conversations a little while back, I\u2019ve been involved on the precious fire door working groups. And then recently I\u2019ve been taking a lot of interest in the Building Safety Act and not a long time ago picked up on a few conversations and the kind of wants to be able to share the information so everyone gets what they need to make buildings safer. So I set up a little group on LinkedIn which gathered a bit of momentum and I know BIM4Housing kindly put on a working group session as well which I brought people in to the table on that. I was intrigued to listen in and thank you for all of the conversation which I\u2019ll take back and hopefully AI or Building Safety Act knowledge tools, it\u2019s great, so we all get consistency.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE I think even if we had a kind of map of some kind of who\u2019s doing what in AI around this domain would be helpful, so people know who to go and talk to. Who\u2019s doing what, because often it can be better to collaborate with somebody who\u2019s got something that\u2019s going to help you do some of the heavy lifting to start with or compliments what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n

JEREMY MALET Absolutely, there\u2019s nothing wrong with standing on the shoulders of giants.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE Partly, there is more that\u2019s out there and when I\u2019ve spoken to people, either at Innovate or BridgeAI they\u2019re all surprised by this because basically they think the built environment has very low AI adoption. And it does compared to other sectors, and it does compared to other sectors, but actually there is stuff going around project management and all the rest, there\u2019s some areas that are moving quite fast and there\u2019s others that aren\u2019t. I\u2019m not sure we need too much longer, with less people you get through things and I didn\u2019t want to get into anything too deep without us deciding what we want to do.<\/p>\n

RICHARD As you said, it\u2019s been very valuable because it\u2019s honed the next meeting, we\u2019ve had a lot of very good input. But I definitely think it\u2019s worth doing to the larger group. For any that aren\u2019t aware, we\u2019ve set up a new group\/organisation called BIM In Asset Management which is similar to BIM4Housing, the only difference being is that it covers across all sectors. We had a launch meeting on Monday and we\u2019ve got our next meeting on the 17th June. Invites will be going out probably today so keep and eye out for that and if you\u2019re involved in asset management or use asset information come along. It was a very lively session on Monday, and it promises to be a very exciting group. We\u2019ve already set up three workstreams, one in business case, one in digital and one in interoperability and Jack is one of the leaders of the interoperability workstream.<\/p>\n

DEBBIE I\u2019m going to update the slides and then I\u2019ll share them. And then if I\u2019ve missed anything, anyone can say or add it to it and then we\u2019ve got a deck that we can take forward.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

BIM4Housing: Advisory Working Group Meeting 23-05-2024 RICHARD \u2026A lot of people there and we covered a lot of ground, but it mostly boiled down to knowledge management, we touched on Ai in the meeting. So the idea of today is to go and delve a little deeper into that and look at some of the…<\/p>\n

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